Comments on: The search for Vulcan http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/ Clouds and cosmos: the atmosphere and beyond! Fri, 04 Jul 2008 07:42:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Larry Sessions http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-212 Larry Sessions Thu, 31 May 2007 14:33:00 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-212 Sinde, Wow! Who'da thunk? I have relatives in Birmingham, but I've never been there. You know, there is a Jupiter, Florida, too and I am sure other planet-named cities and communities across the US. We have our own little solar system right here in the good old USA! LS Sinde,
Wow! Who’da thunk? I have relatives in Birmingham, but I’ve never been there. You know, there is a Jupiter, Florida, too and I am sure other planet-named cities and communities across the US. We have our own little solar system right here in the good old USA!

LS

]]> By: Sinde http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-211 Sinde Thu, 31 May 2007 13:57:41 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-211 I know where you can find Vulcan: Birmingham, Alabama! :) http://www.visitvulcan.com/ I know where you can find Vulcan: Birmingham, Alabama! :)

http://www.visitvulcan.com/

]]> By: Larry Sessions http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-62 Larry Sessions Tue, 15 May 2007 14:13:56 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-62 A common idea around today is that the Universe arose from nothing -- no matter, no energy -- nothing. It suddenly came into existance at the moment of the Big Bang. This part, at least, is consistent with religious ideas. If you aren't inclined toward religion, then it seems like magic -- like a magician making someone suddenly appear out of nowhere -- except there is no magician and it is completely real. Wild ideas, but in fact we see it happen. It *is* happening all day, every day, every where, but on a very small scale. Particles, operating through the well-known laws of quantum physics suddenly appear -- as far as we can tell out of nothing at all -- all the time. Call these virtual particles and the process a quantum fluctuation. There is no reason that the Universe itself could not have been one of these quantum fluctuations out of nothing, although on an enormously larger scale than what can be detected every day. It seems wild, but it is possible. Still this doesn't answer the question satisfactorily as to where the Universe came from because we can still ask, well what caused that? The major school of quantum physics -- known as the Copenhagen Interpretation -- basically says that we should not even ask the question (at least in regard to quantum fluctuations) because we CANNOT know the answer. But of course, many are not satisfied and always ask why or what happened before. Telling us not to think about it is kind of like telling a 5-year-old not to think about ice cream while you are standing at the counter of Haagen Daz. So you and I and anyone else who uses his or her brain will continue to think about it and ask questions. That is good and I think necessary, but I don't hold much hope of finding an ultimate answer. A common idea around today is that the Universe arose from nothing — no matter, no energy — nothing. It suddenly came into existance at the moment of the Big Bang. This part, at least, is consistent with religious ideas. If you aren’t inclined toward religion, then it seems like magic — like a magician making someone suddenly appear out of nowhere — except there is no magician and it is completely real. Wild ideas, but in fact we see it happen. It *is* happening all day, every day, every where, but on a very small scale. Particles, operating through the well-known laws of quantum physics suddenly appear — as far as we can tell out of nothing at all — all the time. Call these virtual particles and the process a quantum fluctuation. There is no reason that the Universe itself could not have been one of these quantum fluctuations out of nothing, although on an enormously larger scale than what can be detected every day. It seems wild, but it is possible. Still this doesn’t answer the question satisfactorily as to where the Universe came from because we can still ask, well what caused that? The major school of quantum physics — known as the Copenhagen Interpretation — basically says that we should not even ask the question (at least in regard to quantum fluctuations) because we CANNOT know the answer. But of course, many are not satisfied and always ask why or what happened before. Telling us not to think about it is kind of like telling a 5-year-old not to think about ice cream while you are standing at the counter of Haagen Daz. So you and I and anyone else who uses his or her brain will continue to think about it and ask questions. That is good and I think necessary, but I don’t hold much hope of finding an ultimate answer.

]]> By: sam http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-60 sam Tue, 15 May 2007 04:42:55 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-60 i find it hard to understand a universe with a sudden beginning but i have always,since my first memory of thinking about it,been able to understand the concept of forever with no beginning and no end. itseasy when you think about it as a child but i can see the problem when we become older. the more i know of science and physics the harder it seems to be able to enjoy a sci fi movie or book. luckily i have the attention span that allows me to suspend picking things apart if the novel is great. but i have to say its rare to see a movie that can hold me as strongly. when i stated..why now.. i did not mean during our lifetime. i meant why now in the history of the universe did the earth form?i cant see how nothing existed before the big bang because my brain tells me what caused the big bang to happen? something was jostled?god sneezed?particles time and space suddenly appeared?i certainly see merit in a cyclic universe of explosion,expansion,collapse.but to think of anything other than eternal seems odd to me.my memories of thinking about this are from around the age of 5 when my mother was teaching me to read and one night she was pointing out orion i think it was but she began to tell me of an endless number of stars. this thought has driven my curiosity to this day. i find it hard to understand a universe with a sudden beginning but i have always,since my first memory of thinking about it,been able to understand the concept of forever with no beginning and no end. itseasy when you think about it as a child but i can see the problem when we become older. the more i know of science and physics the harder it seems to be able to enjoy a sci fi movie or book. luckily i have the attention span that allows me to suspend picking things apart if the novel is great. but i have to say its rare to see a movie that can hold me as strongly. when i stated..why now.. i did not mean during our lifetime. i meant why now in the history of the universe did the earth form?i cant see how nothing existed before the big bang because my brain tells me what caused the big bang to happen? something was jostled?god sneezed?particles time and space suddenly appeared?i certainly see merit in a cyclic universe of explosion,expansion,collapse.but to think of anything other than eternal seems odd to me.my memories of thinking about this are from around the age of 5 when my mother was teaching me to read and one night she was pointing out orion i think it was but she began to tell me of an endless number of stars. this thought has driven my curiosity to this day.

]]> By: Larry Sessions http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-58 Larry Sessions Mon, 14 May 2007 15:40:00 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-58 Hi, Sam. I didn't mean to say that the Universe is not infinite, but as you state there is no evidence to prove that it isn't, by the same token there is no evidence to prove that it is. And for me, it is as hard (make that "impossible") to fully grasp the idea of infinite time as it is for me to imagine a beginning in time with nothing before it. I just can't do it. I can talk about it, but I can't really comprehend it in my mind. We have limited, 3-dimensional minds, and as such I think we are limited in what we can fully understand. Now I don't see that as negative, and I there will always be more to learn, more to explore. In fact it is good, because if we weren't limited in our abilities, we would already know everything -- we would be omniscient! And with nothing left to learn, it would be very boring! No doubt you have heard that American Indians often referred to the deity as the "Great Spirit." In the Lakota tongue, that phrase is "Wakan Tanka." However, "Great Spirit" is not the only possible translation. It can also be translated as "Great Mystery." That's what I think the Universe is, a great mystery. There will always be more for us to explore and learn, but we will never know it all. Hi, Sam. I didn’t mean to say that the Universe is not infinite, but as you state there is no evidence to prove that it isn’t, by the same token there is no evidence to prove that it is. And for me, it is as hard (make that “impossible”) to fully grasp the idea of infinite time as it is for me to imagine a beginning in time with nothing before it. I just can’t do it. I can talk about it, but I can’t really comprehend it in my mind. We have limited, 3-dimensional minds, and as such I think we are limited in what we can fully understand. Now I don’t see that as negative, and I there will always be more to learn, more to explore. In fact it is good, because if we weren’t limited in our abilities, we would already know everything — we would be omniscient! And with nothing left to learn, it would be very boring!

No doubt you have heard that American Indians often referred to the deity as the “Great Spirit.” In the Lakota tongue, that phrase is “Wakan Tanka.” However, “Great Spirit” is not the only possible translation. It can also be translated as “Great Mystery.” That’s what I think the Universe is, a great mystery. There will always be more for us to explore and learn, but we will never know it all.

]]> By: sam http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-55 sam Mon, 14 May 2007 05:00:21 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-55 i base my comments on the current understanding and theory behind quantum physics. i stand behind my statements of an infinite universe simply because there is no current thought to disprove. it is hard for my human mind to imagine that absolutely nothing exists before a beginning simply because i know the question....why now?...why did nothing exist before and how can nothing exist later? why now? i know the question to some might seem simple but why now? mabey there is some merit to the argument the universe exists simply because someone is here to observe it but i do not believe this to be so.i also believe that our current understanding of everything at this point is as educated and valid as the current thinking 3000 years ago, we dont know, what we dont know. i believe in a thousand years or mabey 10,000 we will see the world of today as we today see neolithic humans.but then again my views may seem simple. but i doubt it. but thank you for providing fodder for my curiosity. i base my comments on the current understanding and theory behind quantum physics. i stand behind my statements of an infinite universe simply because there is no current thought to disprove. it is hard for my human mind to imagine that absolutely nothing exists before a beginning simply because i know the question….why now?…why did nothing exist before and how can nothing exist later? why now? i know the question to some might seem simple but why now? mabey there is some merit to the argument the universe exists simply because someone is here to observe it but i do not believe this to be so.i also believe that our current understanding of everything at this point is as educated and valid as the current thinking 3000 years ago, we dont know, what we dont know. i believe in a thousand years or mabey 10,000 we will see the world of today as we today see neolithic humans.but then again my views may seem simple. but i doubt it. but thank you for providing fodder for my curiosity.

]]> By: Larry Sessions http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-54 Larry Sessions Sun, 13 May 2007 17:24:56 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-54 Sam, The Universe *may* be infinite in size (there is no way to tell for sure), but there are limits, such as the speed of light and the maximum distance we can see in space. Space itself is certainly larger than the portion we can see, but the full extent is unknown. It is not a "given" that the Universe is infinite in either space or time, and in some interpretations, time began with the Big Bang and hence there was nothing before. Presumably it could be infinite to the future but not to the past (if that makes any sense!). Stephen Hawking has said that asking what happened before the Big Bang may be a little like asking what is "one mile north of the North Pole." It is a meaningless question. And yet there is a theory, based on quantum physics, that there may be an infinite number of universes, a new one springing up full blown when anything changes in any of the other universes, and none interacting with or detectable from each other. Of course there is no real evidence of this, but it is not forbidden by the laws of physics as we now know them. As you note, there are some who believe that if something is not forbidden, then it must be true somewhere at some time. But by the laws of quantum physics, it is not absolutely forbidden that the earth could suddenly stop orbitting the sun at 150 million kilometers and take up an orbit at 15 million km (or any other distance), which would make it rather hot for us. But the liklihood of that happening is incalcuably small, so I am not planning to stockpile air conditioners and ice makers. LS Sam,

The Universe *may* be infinite in size (there is no way to tell for sure), but there are limits, such as the speed of light and the maximum distance we can see in space. Space itself is certainly larger than the portion we can see, but the full extent is unknown. It is not a “given” that the Universe is infinite in either space or time, and in some interpretations, time began with the Big Bang and hence there was nothing before. Presumably it could be infinite to the future but not to the past (if that makes any sense!). Stephen Hawking has said that asking what happened before the Big Bang may be a little like asking what is “one mile north of the North Pole.” It is a meaningless question.

And yet there is a theory, based on quantum physics, that there may be an infinite number of universes, a new one springing up full blown when anything changes in any of the other universes, and none interacting with or detectable from each other. Of course there is no real evidence of this, but it is not forbidden by the laws of physics as we now know them. As you note, there are some who believe that if something is not forbidden, then it must be true somewhere at some time. But by the laws of quantum physics, it is not absolutely forbidden that the earth could suddenly stop orbitting the sun at 150 million kilometers and take up an orbit at 15 million km (or any other distance), which would make it rather hot for us. But the liklihood of that happening is incalcuably small, so I am not planning to stockpile air conditioners and ice makers.

LS

]]> By: deborahbyrd http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-53 deborahbyrd Sun, 13 May 2007 13:16:32 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-53 <i>I just wish i was born into a time where we found another life bearing planet.</i> Sam, it's conceivable you could get your wish! We had an interesting interview recently with Nancy Kiang of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York. She talked about finding life on other planets by looking for oxygen in their atmospheres: the result of photosynthesis from plants. Here's a 90-second version ... <a href="http://www.earthsky.org/radioshows/51294/seeking-life-on-alien-worlds-look-to-plants" rel="nofollow">Seeking life on alien worlds? Look to plants.</a> And here's a 13-minute podcast with Nancy Kiang: <a href="http://www.earthsky.org/clear-voices/51302/nancy-kiang" rel="nofollow">Searching for photosynthesis among the stars</a> A few decades ago, we didn't know for sure of any extrasolar planets. Now we know 200 planets orbiting other stars. Who knows what will happen next? It's very exciting! I just wish i was born into a time where we found another life bearing planet.

Sam, it’s conceivable you could get your wish! We had an interesting interview recently with Nancy Kiang of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York. She talked about finding life on other planets by looking for oxygen in their atmospheres: the result of photosynthesis from plants. Here’s a 90-second version … Seeking life on alien worlds? Look to plants.

And here’s a 13-minute podcast with Nancy Kiang: Searching for photosynthesis among the stars

A few decades ago, we didn’t know for sure of any extrasolar planets. Now we know 200 planets orbiting other stars. Who knows what will happen next? It’s very exciting!

]]> By: sam http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-52 sam Sun, 13 May 2007 13:02:50 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-52 i love following the continuing debate on a grand unified theory. also i believe that in an infinite universe(time wise)anything that you can think of or anyone else has thought of in any part of history, it has happened, will happen, or is happening. that runs from a world where odin rules your life to a universe where cartoon characters are real(this would of course require different laws of physics).i mean the big bang or any theory would need something before and after, unless you were to debate the universe exists because we are here to observe it.but infinity means infinity and it has to be that anything is possible in an infinite amount of time or space. i just wish i was born into a time where we found another life bearing planet. i love following the continuing debate on a grand unified theory. also i believe that in an infinite universe(time wise)anything that you can think of or anyone else has thought of in any part of history, it has happened, will happen, or is happening. that runs from a world where odin rules your life to a universe where cartoon characters are real(this would of course require different laws of physics).i mean the big bang or any theory would need something before and after, unless you were to debate the universe exists because we are here to observe it.but infinity means infinity and it has to be that anything is possible in an infinite amount of time or space. i just wish i was born into a time where we found another life bearing planet.

]]> By: Larry Sessions http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-39 Larry Sessions Sat, 12 May 2007 21:11:02 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/051217/the-search-for-vulcan/#comment-39 Boy, I wish I knew. Then I would be a best-selling author! Actually, come to think of it, I have a friend who has authored several books on the future and future trends, but he isn't a multi-millionare yet, even though my impression is that his predictions are pretty good. So who knows? But seriously, don't expect everything we know today to someday be refuted and replaced by a new and better idea. In many cases that surely will happen, but my guess is that *most* of the basic laws of the natural world are known well enough that a thorough overthrow is not likely -- it will be more like progressive refinements. But there are some areas, including cosmology, quantum physics and "string theory," where major changes are, in my opinion, much more likely. LS Boy, I wish I knew. Then I would be a best-selling author! Actually, come to think of it, I have a friend who has authored several books on the future and future trends, but he isn’t a multi-millionare yet, even though my impression is that his predictions are pretty good. So who knows?

But seriously, don’t expect everything we know today to someday be refuted and replaced by a new and better idea. In many cases that surely will happen, but my guess is that *most* of the basic laws of the natural world are known well enough that a thorough overthrow is not likely — it will be more like progressive refinements. But there are some areas, including cosmology, quantum physics and “string theory,” where major changes are, in my opinion, much more likely.

LS

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