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	<title>Comments on: How bright the sun?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/</link>
	<description>Clouds and cosmos: the atmosphere and beyond!</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Larry Sessions</title>
		<link>http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Sessions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 03:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-27</guid>
		<description>RE: Ray Cobb,

Thanks, Ray. You are correct, but my sloppy use of the term was to imply a very rapid diminishing of brightness.

Larry S.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: Ray Cobb,</p>
<p>Thanks, Ray. You are correct, but my sloppy use of the term was to imply a very rapid diminishing of brightness.</p>
<p>Larry S.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce McClure</title>
		<link>http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce McClure</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 01:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-25</guid>
		<description>Larry,

I'm finally getting around to checking out the new blogs. Very much enjoyed your "How bright is the sun?" Just want to make a quick comment on the sun's size as seen from Mercury. Even though the sun's angular diameter would be some 3 times larger than here on Earth, it's disk size would be 9 times larger (diameter squared).

That would probably be pretty impressive! 

Bruce</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m finally getting around to checking out the new blogs. Very much enjoyed your &#8220;How bright is the sun?&#8221; Just want to make a quick comment on the sun&#8217;s size as seen from Mercury. Even though the sun&#8217;s angular diameter would be some 3 times larger than here on Earth, it&#8217;s disk size would be 9 times larger (diameter squared).</p>
<p>That would probably be pretty impressive! </p>
<p>Bruce</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2007 04:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-24</guid>
		<description>i want to start by saying this may sound stupid and im not a cosmologist, astronomer, etc. i just wake up each morning wanting to know more than i did yesterday. anyway..the dictionary defines a star as any light emitting body. a blackhole has an accretion disk wich puts out light thru...you know..amyway to keep this short.. does a black hole fall at the top of the h.r.diagram or the bottom?..if it in fact is even considered to be a star ...it may not i dont know and i wont be offended if you just ignore this question..thank you</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i want to start by saying this may sound stupid and im not a cosmologist, astronomer, etc. i just wake up each morning wanting to know more than i did yesterday. anyway..the dictionary defines a star as any light emitting body. a blackhole has an accretion disk wich puts out light thru&#8230;you know..amyway to keep this short.. does a black hole fall at the top of the h.r.diagram or the bottom?..if it in fact is even considered to be a star &#8230;it may not i dont know and i wont be offended if you just ignore this question..thank you</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Cobb</title>
		<link>http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Cobb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 13:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-22</guid>
		<description>Larry,

Your article was fascinating. However, since part of the article focused on accuracy in the media, I do have an accuracy quibble. I've been taught differently about the meaning of "exponential" variation.

The article states that the light intensity diminishes as the square of the distance, and this is called "exponentially." I don't believe that that is accurate. Varying as the square of distance or the hundredth power of distance is not considered exponential. To be exponential, the variable has to itself be part of the exponent. With light intensity versus distance, the distance is at the base, and a constant, 2, is in the exponent. In other words, light intensity varies as d to the power of two, or I = d^2. 

If it were the other way around, if the light intensity from a point source varied as two to the power of the distance, I = 2^d, then the variation would be exponential. (There is nothing magic about the 2, it could be 3^d, e^d, or any other number of course.)

For example, on Saturn, which is ten times the distance from the sun that the earth is, the sun's apparent intensity would be 10^2, or 100 times less than on earth. If the variation were exponential, the ratio of intensities would be 2^10, or 1024. 

The classic story of the inventor of chess, who asked that a single grain of wheat be placed on the first square of the checkerboard, and then doubled on each of the remaining squares, was trying to take advantage of exponential growth. The final square would have had 2^63 grains, or roughly 9 with 18 zeros after it. As the story goes, the king realized he'd been conned long before they got to square 64, and had the guy beheaded. 

That minor misstatement didn't affect any of the numbers in the table or the conclusions of the article, of course. I just couldn't resist. :-)

Ray</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry,</p>
<p>Your article was fascinating. However, since part of the article focused on accuracy in the media, I do have an accuracy quibble. I&#8217;ve been taught differently about the meaning of &#8220;exponential&#8221; variation.</p>
<p>The article states that the light intensity diminishes as the square of the distance, and this is called &#8220;exponentially.&#8221; I don&#8217;t believe that that is accurate. Varying as the square of distance or the hundredth power of distance is not considered exponential. To be exponential, the variable has to itself be part of the exponent. With light intensity versus distance, the distance is at the base, and a constant, 2, is in the exponent. In other words, light intensity varies as d to the power of two, or I = d^2. </p>
<p>If it were the other way around, if the light intensity from a point source varied as two to the power of the distance, I = 2^d, then the variation would be exponential. (There is nothing magic about the 2, it could be 3^d, e^d, or any other number of course.)</p>
<p>For example, on Saturn, which is ten times the distance from the sun that the earth is, the sun&#8217;s apparent intensity would be 10^2, or 100 times less than on earth. If the variation were exponential, the ratio of intensities would be 2^10, or 1024. </p>
<p>The classic story of the inventor of chess, who asked that a single grain of wheat be placed on the first square of the checkerboard, and then doubled on each of the remaining squares, was trying to take advantage of exponential growth. The final square would have had 2^63 grains, or roughly 9 with 18 zeros after it. As the story goes, the king realized he&#8217;d been conned long before they got to square 64, and had the guy beheaded. </p>
<p>That minor misstatement didn&#8217;t affect any of the numbers in the table or the conclusions of the article, of course. I just couldn&#8217;t resist. <img src='http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Ray</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 04:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-21</guid>
		<description>oh. well thanks, i thought it was closer. distance and size on a cosmological scale are simply stunning to even imagine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh. well thanks, i thought it was closer. distance and size on a cosmological scale are simply stunning to even imagine.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Sessions</title>
		<link>http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Sessions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-20</guid>
		<description>Hi, Sam. Glad you enjoyed it. Actually, the sun is not &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; big as seen from Mercury. The sun is about a half-degree across as seen from earth, and Mercury is roughly  one-third the earth's distance from the sun. So from Mercury, the sun would be roughly a degree and a half across. On the average it should be, oh, roughly the size of an orange held at arm's length.

Thanks for the links. I'll check them out!

Larry S.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Sam. Glad you enjoyed it. Actually, the sun is not <i>that</i> big as seen from Mercury. The sun is about a half-degree across as seen from earth, and Mercury is roughly  one-third the earth&#8217;s distance from the sun. So from Mercury, the sun would be roughly a degree and a half across. On the average it should be, oh, roughly the size of an orange held at arm&#8217;s length.</p>
<p>Thanks for the links. I&#8217;ll check them out!</p>
<p>Larry S.</p>
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		<title>By: Globalwarming Watcher</title>
		<link>http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Globalwarming Watcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 06:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-19</guid>
		<description>Hi Larry,

Today I get new information that VY Canis Majoris (VY CMa) is a red hypergiant star. 
Please check these links &lt;a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_known_stars' rel="nofollow"&gt;
        the largest known stars&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_known_stars' rel="nofollow"&gt;one of the most luminous stars known&lt;/a&gt;.

MES</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Larry,</p>
<p>Today I get new information that VY Canis Majoris (VY CMa) is a red hypergiant star.<br />
Please check these links <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_known_stars' rel="nofollow"><br />
        the largest known stars</a> and <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_known_stars' rel="nofollow">one of the most luminous stars known</a>.</p>
<p>MES</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2007 19:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-17</guid>
		<description>i very much enjoy this blog . mind boggling  when you think of the distances sizes and brightness of stars. i wish (if my eyes were able to stand it and i didnt die of the bombardment by particles and radiation)...anyway i wonder how reathtaking it would be to see the sun from the surface of mercury? just the size alone filling the horizon would probably be hypnotic. thanks all for providing all of the thoughts and facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i very much enjoy this blog . mind boggling  when you think of the distances sizes and brightness of stars. i wish (if my eyes were able to stand it and i didnt die of the bombardment by particles and radiation)&#8230;anyway i wonder how reathtaking it would be to see the sun from the surface of mercury? just the size alone filling the horizon would probably be hypnotic. thanks all for providing all of the thoughts and facts.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Sessions</title>
		<link>http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Sessions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-15</guid>
		<description>Well, I don't think being near the brightest star in the Universe would in any way imply a violation of the cosmological principle. The basic or original cosmological principle just specifies that the universe have the same bulk properties no matter where you look. That cannot be absolutely true or there would be no concentrations of matter -- no stars, no planets, no us. If we required that it be perfectly isotropic and homogeneous, how could there be objects or the large scale structure of the Universe?

So we can be near the Sun or any other star and it wouldn't necessarily be a violation as long as the bulk properties of space even out over large distances in all directions. Even if we were orbiting the brightest star in the Universe, that could be pure coincidence. Some star has to be the brightest, right? Surely that does not imply a violation in itself. I am assuming that there &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; a brightest star in the Universe, but not that it occupies any preferential location.

Now, &lt;i&gt;if&lt;/i&gt; we were the only life in the Universe, &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; we orbited the truly brightest star, that might say something. But we could never be sure. We could no more prove that we were the only life in the Universe than we can prove that God doesn't exist. Just can't be done.

L.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I don&#8217;t think being near the brightest star in the Universe would in any way imply a violation of the cosmological principle. The basic or original cosmological principle just specifies that the universe have the same bulk properties no matter where you look. That cannot be absolutely true or there would be no concentrations of matter &#8212; no stars, no planets, no us. If we required that it be perfectly isotropic and homogeneous, how could there be objects or the large scale structure of the Universe?</p>
<p>So we can be near the Sun or any other star and it wouldn&#8217;t necessarily be a violation as long as the bulk properties of space even out over large distances in all directions. Even if we were orbiting the brightest star in the Universe, that could be pure coincidence. Some star has to be the brightest, right? Surely that does not imply a violation in itself. I am assuming that there <i>is</i> a brightest star in the Universe, but not that it occupies any preferential location.</p>
<p>Now, <i>if</i> we were the only life in the Universe, <i>and</i> we orbited the truly brightest star, that might say something. But we could never be sure. We could no more prove that we were the only life in the Universe than we can prove that God doesn&#8217;t exist. Just can&#8217;t be done.</p>
<p>L.</p>
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		<title>By: deborahbyrd</title>
		<link>http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>deborahbyrd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/space/042610/how-bright-the-sun/#comment-14</guid>
		<description>Of course, if the sun were the brightest star known (the error you mentioned, Larry, in the first paragraph of this post), it would violate the "Cosmological Principle":http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_principle: the idea that we are not in a preferred place in the universe.

Unless, of course, a precursor for human life were that it needed the brightness of the galaxy's brightest star in order to evolve!

I sense a science fiction story idea in the making ...

Deborah</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, if the sun were the brightest star known (the error you mentioned, Larry, in the first paragraph of this post), it would violate the &#8220;Cosmological Principle&#8221;:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_principle: the idea that we are not in a preferred place in the universe.</p>
<p>Unless, of course, a precursor for human life were that it needed the brightness of the galaxy&#8217;s brightest star in order to evolve!</p>
<p>I sense a science fiction story idea in the making &#8230;</p>
<p>Deborah</p>
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