Comments on: The stars are disappearing! http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/science/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/ Clouds and cosmos: the atmosphere and beyond! Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:19:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Jack http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/science/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-12814 Jack Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:25:59 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/climate-weather/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-12814 Ever look at those night sky maps like you have up there and notice how much darker the western states are. It's interesting to see how pretty much all of the east coast is lit up so much. Granted that's where all the big cities are, but weird. Ever look at those night sky maps like you have up there and notice how much darker the western states are. It’s interesting to see how pretty much all of the east coast is lit up so much. Granted that’s where all the big cities are, but weird.

]]> By: Larry Sessions http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/science/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-12810 Larry Sessions Thu, 23 Oct 2008 00:48:51 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/climate-weather/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-12810 Also try the NASA-JPL Night Sky Network: http://nightsky.jpl.nasa.gov/ Larry S. Also try the NASA-JPL Night Sky Network:
http://nightsky.jpl.nasa.gov/

Larry S.

]]> By: P. Edward Murray http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/science/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-12809 P. Edward Murray Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:31:54 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/climate-weather/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-12809 Larry & Lindsey, I advise finding your local astronomy club, you can find these easily enough through Astronomy Magazines website and also via Sky & Telescopes website. If you Google "Astronomy Clubs" the second one is the Sky & Telescope listing. And when you find a local astronomy club you can ask where there observing locations are. Most clubs do have observing sites. And while you are at it, Google "The International Dark Sky Association" to learn more about light pollution. I also know that Astronomer Phil Harrington does list dark sky sites on one of his web pages. Interestingly enough, the IDA gave two presentations to the US House and Senate and there was some interest from California. P. Edward Murray Former President Bucks-Mont. Astronomical Assoc., Inc. A Membership-based, 501 (c) 3 Non-Profit Discoverer of "The Basketball Player in The Moon". Larry & Lindsey,

I advise finding your local astronomy club, you can find these easily enough through Astronomy Magazines website and also via Sky & Telescopes website. If you Google
“Astronomy Clubs” the second one is the Sky & Telescope listing.

And when you find a local astronomy club you can ask where there observing locations are. Most clubs do have observing sites.

And while you are at it, Google “The International Dark Sky Association” to learn more about light pollution.

I also know that Astronomer Phil Harrington does list dark sky sites on one of his web pages.

Interestingly enough, the IDA gave two presentations to the US House and Senate and there was some interest from California.

P. Edward Murray
Former President
Bucks-Mont. Astronomical Assoc., Inc.
A Membership-based, 501 (c) 3 Non-Profit

Discoverer of “The Basketball Player in The Moon”.

]]> By: Larry Sessions http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/science/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-12752 Larry Sessions Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:06:57 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/climate-weather/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-12752 Lindsey, There is no single best answer I an give you. There is light pollution almost everywhere. The single most important thing is to get away from *all* direct lights -- street lights, house lights car lights -- and let your eyes adapt to the darkness for at least 15 minutes. Find a location such that the majority of urban light pollution is in the opposite direction from what you are intending to observe. For a meteor shower radiating from the northeast, try to have all the major cities and such to your west. As far as a specific location, look at that graphic at the top of this blog. In California there are a number of "pockets" of relatively light-free areas, including some of the Central Valley and parts of the northern interior. I would be surprised if there aren't some good areas north of Sacramento. Obviously you would want an area with as large a view of the sky as possible, so certainly heavily wooded areas are out, and as you suggested, the coastal areas are certainly not good choices most of the time. (It *can* be surprisingly clear on the coast from time to time, but I wouldn't count on it.) You can find open meadows in forested areas (maybe state and national parks), but in my opinion, one of the best places might be any desert areas such as Death Valley and others. There is no question that you will have to do some driving to find a good spot, but suspect that if you got maybe 20 miles outside the boundaries of any major metro area (except LA and SF), you could find a decent spot. For LA and SF you'll likely have to go farther, at least 50 miles east to northeast for LA.) If you do go out of state, of course there are plenty of choices in Nevada. By the way, meteor showers happen every year, and sometimes the timing is better than at other times. Having a full moon in the sky can be as bad a moderately bad light pollution. (Also keep in mind that the term "shower" is misleading, because they are never like rain showers or the shower in your bathroom -- 1 to 2 meteors per minute is a really good meteor shower.) So if you don't catch them this year, don't give up. LS Lindsey,
There is no single best answer I an give you. There is light pollution almost everywhere. The single most important thing is to get away from *all* direct lights — street lights, house lights car lights — and let your eyes adapt to the darkness for at least 15 minutes. Find a location such that the majority of urban light pollution is in the opposite direction from what you are intending to observe. For a meteor shower radiating from the northeast, try to have all the major cities and such to your west.

As far as a specific location, look at that graphic at the top of this blog. In California there are a number of “pockets” of relatively light-free areas, including some of the Central Valley and parts of the northern interior. I would be surprised if there aren’t some good areas north of Sacramento.

Obviously you would want an area with as large a view of the sky as possible, so certainly heavily wooded areas are out, and as you suggested, the coastal areas are certainly not good choices most of the time. (It *can* be surprisingly clear on the coast from time to time, but I wouldn’t count on it.) You can find open meadows in forested areas (maybe state and national parks), but in my opinion, one of the best places might be any desert areas such as Death Valley and others. There is no question that you will have to do some driving to find a good spot, but suspect that if you got maybe 20 miles outside the boundaries of any major metro area (except LA and SF), you could find a decent spot. For LA and SF you’ll likely have to go farther, at least 50 miles east to northeast for LA.) If you do go out of state, of course there are plenty of choices in Nevada.

By the way, meteor showers happen every year, and sometimes the timing is better than at other times. Having a full moon in the sky can be as bad a moderately bad light pollution. (Also keep in mind that the term “shower” is misleading, because they are never like rain showers or the shower in your bathroom — 1 to 2 meteors per minute is a really good meteor shower.) So if you don’t catch them this year, don’t give up.

LS

]]> By: Lindsey http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/science/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-12751 Lindsey Fri, 05 Sep 2008 06:10:51 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/climate-weather/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-12751 Speaking of once dark locations, I was hoping to see the Geminids meteor shower this December but because I live California, the skys are quite polluted and aren't very clear. What kind of a location would you suggest would be best for someone who lives in a highly urbanized area? Is there anything, short of going out of state, that I can do? I'm afraid that if I choose a rural forest area i won't beable to see the shower through the trees and that if I choose an ocean front location, the fog will ruin any chance of seeing it. Are those correct concerns or am i just worrying too much about losing yet another chance of seeing one of the showers that we've had this year? Speaking of once dark locations, I was hoping to see the Geminids meteor shower this December but because I live California, the skys are quite polluted and aren’t very clear. What kind of a location would you suggest would be best for someone who lives in a highly urbanized area? Is there anything, short of going out of state, that I can do? I’m afraid that if I choose a rural forest area i won’t beable to see the shower through the trees and that if I choose an ocean front location, the fog will ruin any chance of seeing it. Are those correct concerns or am i just worrying too much about losing yet another chance of seeing one of the showers that we’ve had this year?

]]> By: Larry Sessions http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/science/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-9840 Larry Sessions Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:42:41 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/climate-weather/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-9840 Mark, Yeah, we are getting whammied by two forms of pollution, the crud that fills the skies and the excess light we are shining on it through poorly designed lighting and ill-considered developments. A small nature center I have given star parties at used to be in a dark location, but a major street development, light rail and within the past few years a strip mall with megalights adjacent to the east side of their property have all but ruined it for observing much of anything but the Moon and a few planets. It's such a shame, but like you say, so few today know the difference and if they don't know the difference, they don't care. Mark,
Yeah, we are getting whammied by two forms of pollution, the crud that fills the skies and the excess light we are shining on it through poorly designed lighting and ill-considered developments. A small nature center I have given star parties at used to be in a dark location, but a major street development, light rail and within the past few years a strip mall with megalights adjacent to the east side of their property have all but ruined it for observing much of anything but the Moon and a few planets. It’s such a shame, but like you say, so few today know the difference and if they don’t know the difference, they don’t care.

]]> By: Mark Ost http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/science/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-9839 Mark Ost Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:44:14 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/climate-weather/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-9839 Unfortunately as a serious amateur astronomer, who resides in a dark location, I am too well aware of the problem. I spend on average 3 to 4 nights a week observing and have seen a gradual deterioration in the night sky as development encroaches on my property. Only 20% of the population has ever seen the milky way (the plane of our galaxy) and I fear that with continued urbanization and unwise use of lighting technology our children will never see what at one time was taken for granted; the night sky. You don't miss what you have never experienced is a truism that bodes ill for the future of our sky. If we cannot arrest this trend we will all be impoverished as another resource is lost with the march of progress. Unfortunately as a serious amateur astronomer, who resides in a dark location, I am too well aware of the problem. I spend on average 3 to 4 nights a week observing and have seen a gradual deterioration in the night sky as development encroaches on my property. Only 20% of the population has ever seen the milky way (the plane of our galaxy) and I fear that with continued urbanization and unwise use of lighting technology our children will never see what at one time was taken for granted; the night sky. You don’t miss what you have never experienced is a truism that bodes ill for the future of our sky. If we cannot arrest this trend we will all be impoverished as another resource is lost with the march of progress.

]]> By: Larry Sessions http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/science/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-9375 Larry Sessions Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:23:24 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/climate-weather/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-9375 I don't have any statistics (but I'm sure they are out there), but if the current trend continues unabated, I would suspect that before this century is out, 95 percent of the human race wil never have even seen a star at night. I'm just pulling that out of thin air, but there certainly is reason to feel that way. Twenty years ago I once managed to see the Milky Way from my home in southeast Denver. Today I'm lucky to see a third magnitude star. And of course from some metropolitan areas it is even worse. But I didn't say that I am convinced that the trend will continue as it currently is. If we continue to wake up about pollution (of all kinds) and truly do something about it rather than treat is as the currently "politicaly correct" thing to do, then maybe there is a chance. LS I don’t have any statistics (but I’m sure they are out there), but if the current trend continues unabated, I would suspect that before this century is out, 95 percent of the human race wil never have even seen a star at night. I’m just pulling that out of thin air, but there certainly is reason to feel that way. Twenty years ago I once managed to see the Milky Way from my home in southeast Denver. Today I’m lucky to see a third magnitude star.

And of course from some metropolitan areas it is even worse.

But I didn’t say that I am convinced that the trend will continue as it currently is. If we continue to wake up about pollution (of all kinds) and truly do something about it rather than treat is as the currently “politicaly correct” thing to do, then maybe there is a chance.

LS

]]> By: Will http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/science/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-9359 Will Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:48:35 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/climate-weather/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-9359 It kind of reminds me of that story where there is only one tree left in the world. Now it is stars that are disappearing. Will there come a time where you won't be able to see any more stars at all? I hope not. I don't know for a fact but people who live in big cities probably can't see any stars at all. Just another indicator of global warming. It kind of reminds me of that story where there is only one tree left in the world. Now it is stars that are disappearing. Will there come a time where you won’t be able to see any more stars at all? I hope not. I don’t know for a fact but people who live in big cities probably can’t see any stars at all. Just another indicator of global warming.

]]> By: antonio http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/science/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-9024 antonio Mon, 04 Feb 2008 18:06:19 +0000 http://blogs.earthsky.org/larrysessions/climate-weather/012885/the-stars-are-disappearing/#comment-9024 I couldn’t agree with you more. One of my best childhood memories was sleeping outside with the stars. My grandma house in Mexico was too small for all her grand kids so a few lucky ones would get to sleep outside. To insure myself a place in the outside setup I would tell my younger cousins the story of “la llorona”. It always worked. My grandma has long past and her adobe house is no more then a mount. When I’ve driven through there I noticed street lights all over. Young kids now a day have no idea what they are missing out in. I couldn’t agree with you more. One of my best childhood memories was sleeping outside with the stars. My grandma house in Mexico was too small for all her grand kids so a few lucky ones would get to sleep outside. To insure myself a place in the outside setup I would tell my younger cousins the story of “la llorona”. It always worked.

My grandma has long past and her adobe house is no more then a mount. When I’ve driven through there I noticed street lights all over. Young kids now a day have no idea what they are missing out in.

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